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Post by TM79 on Mar 14, 2015 0:30:16 GMT
You could do 9 weeks of Madcow with short MetCons on lifting days and long/medium ones on off days. IMO, 5*5 once a week DL will get it done, though I don't know what your goal is. A lot of things would be different if I didn't travel for a living... My problem is that (currently) on roughly half the weeks of the year, I'm only going to have 2 days per week that I can do weight training. Sure, I may be home Friday through Sunday most weeks, but I stand by my need to take at least one of those days off (Saturday). I think you just need that rest in that situation. During the week, my rest days consist of 17 hour travel days. So that Saturday off, even if I have to go to a birthday party that afternoon, etc., is really the only day of "rest" I get all week. If I were going to do the Madcow 5x5, I'd just as well do the West Side Split. They're very similar, just arranged differently. In my opinion, that arrangement is what makes it more feasible to do metcons and heavy conditioning work in conjunction with the weight training. From my experience in weight training in the last year or so, I've noticed a few things: 1. You should always take a day off before a heavy leg day (Squats, Deadlifts). 2. The upper body is much more resilient than the lower body. 3. Do long metcons/long cardio sessions following upper body workouts. 4. Don't do a long metcon/long cardio session the day before a heavy leg workout. Those are a few things. There are plenty more, but that's how I ended up with the template I'm working with now. I'd love to do the West Side Split. If only I could work in town... And man, I do appreciate your thoughts on all of this. |
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Post by jaysun on Mar 14, 2015 2:39:01 GMT
First: I feel like a dumb-a because I had a momentary lapse of reason and forgot about your schedule; second, I of all people should be aware "that everyone is ultimately their own best coach" and you (& I ) know what is best for us. I agree with you on most of your points, but I do disagree with the one about lower body and I think here is where individuality and to some extent genetics come in to play. Squats and DL's don't crush me. Now, I'm not the strongest at DL, but I seem to recover well from them and squats rather easily. Bench and press seem to take me longer to recover from. I'm sore, tired, etc. and usually struggle with MetCons after a volume/heavy day. I like your programming and wish I had the time to follow it. I was following it there for a while, but was finding myself always in a BIG hurry to fit it in. Like right now, my life is demanding a lot of me. Marriage, kids, work, lack of money, etc. I'm preaching to the choir. Those were a big influence on my decision to build a home gym. I just gotta make the space. I wish I had time for Broz's system which is based on the Bulgarian OLY teams training system. In a nutshell: workout every day and don't listen to your body because it will lie to you. An example: you are a garbage man before the automated trucks. You lifted that stuff everyday and your body adapted because that is what our bodies are meant to do. As for West Side, it works IF you do it with it 100% fidelity. See this: www.jtsstrength.com/articles/2014/09/18/decade-westside/I have never done WS, but I know a guy who has and he said that article is on point and for WS methods to work you gotta do em with devotion. He currently does Broz and has worked out every day for 40 consecutive days (squat, bench, DL) and PR's every third day. Squat=420x1 Floor press=320x1 and DL 405x1 at ~170# body weight. His volume per workout is ridiculous, but it takes him an hour and a half + every day. For most of us that is a no go. Madcow is a system that fits my lifestyle right now, and now that I have a gym at home it will be even better. BTW, go Tarheels. |
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Post by TM79 on Mar 14, 2015 14:20:28 GMT
Great article. Thanks for sharing! All I was really trying to say was that it isn't a good idea to go run 5 miles the day before you do squats or deadlifts. Also, doing a "leg-centric" metcon the evening before squats or deadlifts probably isn't a good move. You're right. Everyone is different and ultimately we do what works best for us. It's not to say that you can't run 5 miles and then do heavy squats the next day, but you probably wouldn't get as much from the squat workout because your legs are already fried. Plus it would be a lot harder. It's more about maximizing the effectiveness (and thus the results) of your training. Kind've like managing your recovery time.
I think that the Madcow is a GREAT program for getting stronger but I was having a hard time trying to program long metcons or runs in with it. It just always seemed like I'd have to go run 5 miles and then do heavy squats or DLs the next day. If that works for you, that's awesome. And I really mean that. It just doesn't work for me. I'd like to be able to run 10+ miles at some point and can't imagine having to do heavy squats or DLs the day after that.
As far as time goes, that is always the limiting factor. And I admit that my workouts usually take too long. That's usually because of having to cram two strength days into one, etc. If I was at home a lot, they would rarely take over 1.5 hours, which I feel is pretty reasonable.
The West Side program looks easier to program metcons and runs in with because of it's arrangement. One heavy leg day and one heavy upper body day. Then one lighter leg day and one lighter upper body day. That's all I was trying to say. Ultimately no program is right for everyone, but that one would be my ideal program.
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Post by TM79 on Mar 14, 2015 16:36:36 GMT
Finally on the computer and not on the phone. I hate typing on that phone...  This is a really cool conversation. I love talking about stuff like this and it's times like these that I wish we had more people on the site because I'd love to hear how other people's experiences have been in these types of situations. This stuff helps us to be able to program more efficiently. Maybe I have a hard time doing squats the day after running because I have "little girly" chicken legs and my legs just require more of a break than other people's. Perhaps it doesn't bother you to run one day and then do squats the next. I mean, we've already determined that you're a beast.  I'd love to hear other people chime in on this topic. It may end up being less of a question of "can you do squats the day after a long run" and more a question of "is your squat workout more effective if you are rested going into it". That's probably the main question. |
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Post by jaysun on Mar 15, 2015 2:33:20 GMT
I agree that going for a big run after a heavy squat day probably isn't the best idea. I know that I have learned that the hard way! I usually end up with lower back pain. I dunno, I'm sitting here analyzing weight lifting and I don't have a place to lift right now. Hopefully that will change soon. My garage is full and my wife just brought a load of $h!7 from her school to put in there. I am building a shed/pool house and that will allow me to move all my outdoor tools from the garage to there, but it's completion is at least two weeks off. Funny thing is, i used to be happy with just doing some random metcon, but after lifting some weight and getting results, I'm like, "This sux, gimme some weights!" I want to break 400# in squat and DL this year and 200+ in OHP. What does Guy say about all this and how is he doing?
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Post by TM79 on Mar 15, 2015 13:33:07 GMT
Sorry the garage is such a mess. I pretty much laid claim to ours from the beginning and for the most part, have control over what goes in there. I did a lot of woodworking before so I have a whole shop full of tools. The need for that to be a functional space helped my argument. You're a good man. I'm like Hitler when it comes to the garage. Other than that I don't care about anything in the house. It's a good thing I guess. Otherwise it would be trashed. I'd sure hate to see you fall off the grid man. Hope you can get a space carved out soon and either buy a rack or build one.
As for DLs, Guy is saying I should start at a more manageable weight, like 325 lbs and do 3x5 or something. Then do rack DLs starting from above the knee at a heavier weight (like 365). I would come up and hold at the top for about ten seconds to work grip. Those would be singles. Then add 5 lbs per week, etc. That would only leave OH Press that I'm doing 5-3-1 on.
I've got some interesting stuff planned for this cycle. I'll post my schedule for the week today. I'm doing a deload week, so you may be able to do some of this stuff without your rack.
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Post by TM79 on Mar 15, 2015 13:35:25 GMT
Actually, if you have those squat stands, you could go out on the patio or the driveway and workout. Just put some towels down under the plates if you're pulling from the floor.
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Post by jaysun on Mar 15, 2015 19:45:27 GMT
Not dropping off the radar, just have to get things settled. It will be sooner than later.
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I'd love to hear other people chime in on this topic. It may end up being less of a question of "can you do squats the day after a long run" and more a question of "is your squat workout more effective if you are rested going into it". That's probably the main question.