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Post by jaysun on May 21, 2016 1:31:11 GMT
So today at work I had some down time and watched the live stream of the CF Atlantic regionals. The individual heats were prescribed the following: Men- squat snatch 10*185 8*205 6*225 4*245 2*265 10min cap
Saw a lot of bad form and saw some awesome form. The top three had excellent form and pace without any "not a rep" calls. A rookie (21yo) had it in the bag and got "no repped" on his last rep of 265# because he stepped outside of the box and ended up getting 2nd. The coolest thing was that the veteran who would have gotten second went and stood at the rookies finish box and cheered him on.
The team event was a grinder: 60 HSPU, 20 synchronized bar MU, 30/20cal row, 30/20cal air assault bike, 60 PC's @135# 20 min cap most teams DNF. Never watched the games before but it was actually kind of cool. Don't get me wrong, if I didn't actually know what it is like to do CF, it would have been lame to watch.
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Post by TM79 on May 21, 2016 13:56:32 GMT
So today at work I had some down time and watched the live stream of the CF Atlantic regionals. The individual heats were prescribed the following: Men- squat snatch 10*185 8*205 6*225 4*245 2*265 10min cap Saw a lot of bad form and saw some awesome form. The top three had excellent form and pace without any "not a rep" calls. A rookie (21yo) had it in the bag and got "no repped" on his last rep of 265# because he stepped outside of the box and ended up getting 2nd. The coolest thing was that the veteran who would have gotten second went and stood at the rookies finish box and cheered him on. The team event was a grinder: 60 HSPU, 20 synchronized bar MU, 30/20cal row, 30/20cal air assault bike, 60 PC's @135# 20 min cap most teams DNF. Never watched the games before but it was actually kind of cool. Don't get me wrong, if I didn't actually know what it is like to do CF, it would have been lame to watch. I still can't believe they do movements like squat snatches (which I now refer to as just, "snatches") under such heavy load and for time. To me that is crazy. The risk of injury is so high... But, nonetheless, it is good entertainment and I have the choice to not take part in stuff like that. Sounds like it was pretty cool to watch and I've never seen a team event before. Can you dig up a schedule and post it? While I have my differences of opinion with CF, I can still appreciate watching these professionals who can actually do all of this stuff (even though most of them are roided up). Good stuff.  |
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Post by jaysun on May 21, 2016 17:17:53 GMT
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Post by TM79 on May 21, 2016 19:36:15 GMT
Cool man. Thanks for posting that. I'm watching the Atlantic Regional right now. The women are doing doing 160513 Man, that looks rough. It's funny watching them do singles on DL and dropping the bar after each rep. I guess this isn't a powerlifting meet.  Impressive, even with sh!t form. No way I could do 3 rounds of 405 lbs on DL. And 3 rounds of 40 GHD sit-ups is brutal too. |
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Post by mwhiteaker on May 24, 2016 21:42:52 GMT
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Post by TM79 on May 25, 2016 0:53:07 GMT
That was pretty funny. Honestly, some of his comments are correct. Like killing your gains by doing super long metcons and the extreme level of risk associated with doing complicated movements under heavy load for time. I followed the crossfit main site workouts for 7 months straight (jaysun followed them for a while too) and I hadn't been injured that many times in 10 years leading up to it. That and if you are fortunate enough to escape without injury you may end up over trained, which leads to a whole other set of problems. That's the way it goes when you train in that fashion, 6 days per week... Luckily, an older, wiser, gentleman talked some sense into me and I stepped away from it and really looked at it for what it is. It is basically just conditioning, and when implemented correctly it can help get you into some great shape. The problem with signing up and doing "today's WOD" is that when it comes to physical conditioning of any kind, one size does NOT fit all. Everyone needs something different based on their body type and goals. It's funny, I just got into it with that same gentleman this weekend over this subject. He was trying to defend the method of training that he and his wife did (strict powerlifting, light conditioning and almost no assistance work) and how successful they were. I completely agreed with him. I mean he was out lifting guys that were juicing and he was drug free, and his wife was a world champion. You definitely can't argue with that. And if you are looking to be a world champion at weight lifting, you should use a program like theirs, that focus's solely on getting stronger. He was getting on me about all of the pull-ups I've been doing and how it is killing my gains. I explained to him that that's OK with me because I've already met my strength goals. I was a bean pole kid who grew up to be a man of average height and average build. I was pretty good at running and lifting weights, but not great at either. And while I'm sure that focusing solely on lifting heavy would add a fair amount of weight onto my rep maxes, it would probably leave me more or less out of shape in every other aspect. And in my life, that doesn't work. My goals are simple: -to be significantly stronger than the average person -to be in significantly better cardiovascular shape than the average person -to have a significantly greater overall capacity to do work (manual labor, etc.) than the average person In my opinion, the program that I've been running for almost two years accomplishes all of those goals better than anything else. At this point in the conversation, I will refer to "crossfit" as simply the type of training that it is, high-intensity interval training "HIIT", or metabolic conditioning "metcons." To me, nothing accomplishes my third goal as well as doing metcons regularly. That being said, there will be a negative effect on my strength gains and that has to be minimized by strategic arrangement of my program and managing recovery to the best of my ability. That's why I only do two metcons per week and place them after heavy lifts and give myself a day off afterwards. I also do one long run per week and that is kept over in a corner by itself. To do metcons as your only form of training, you are essentially doing what the guy in the video said. You are "in a very dangerous aerobics class." If a novice begins a training program consisting solely of metcons, they will see rapid gains (in strength and conditioning) at first (as they would in any other program). After that, they will spend the rest of their time nickel and diming away at any real gains. Crossfit is too random to allow for any real gains at an advanced level. Therefore, that person will never get anywhere near their genetic potential for strength. They will settle, instead, for being in shape and having something to go home and tell their friends on facebook about (also mentioned in the video). Where my program differs is that I am stronger than I ever would've been doing crossfit. I am also in much better cardiovascular shape than I was when I did crossfit and can "do more work" than I could when doing crossfit. While I am not at my genetic potential in any of those areas, I am much further in all of them than I would've been if I kept doing crossfit. And that is what matters. Efficiency. Sorry, didn't mean to go on a rant, but it is nice to know that something you work very hard at is working and paying dividends. |
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Post by jaysun on May 25, 2016 2:36:24 GMT
That was pretty funny. Honestly, some of his comments are correct. Like killing your gains by doing super long metcons and the extreme level of risk associated with doing complicated movements under heavy load for time. I followed the crossfit main site workouts for 7 months straight (jaysun followed them for a while too) and I hadn't been injured that many times in 10 years leading up to it. That and if you are fortunate enough to escape without injury you may end up over trained, which leads to a whole other set of problems. That's the way it goes when you train in that fashion, 6 days per week... Luckily, an older, wiser, gentleman talked some sense into me and I stepped away from it and really looked at it for what it is. It is basically just conditioning, and when implemented correctly it can help get you into some great shape. The problem with signing up and doing "today's WOD" is that when it comes to physical conditioning of any kind, one size does NOT fit all. Everyone needs something different based on their body type and goals. It's funny, I just got into it with that same gentleman this weekend over this subject. He was trying to defend the method of training that he and his wife did (strict powerlifting, light conditioning and almost no assistance work) and how successful they were. I completely agreed with him. I mean he was out lifting guys that were juicing and he was drug free, and his wife was a world champion. You definitely can't argue with that. And if you are looking to be a world champion at weight lifting, you should use a program like theirs, that focus's solely on getting stronger. He was getting on me about all of the pull-ups I've been doing and how it is killing my gains. I explained to him that that's OK with me because I've already met my strength goals. I was a bean pole kid who grew up to be a man of average height and average build. I was pretty good at running and lifting weights, but not great at either. And while I'm sure that focusing solely on lifting heavy would add a fair amount of weight onto my rep maxes, it would probably leave me more or less out of shape in every other aspect. And in my life, that doesn't work. My goals are simple: -to be significantly stronger than the average person -to be in significantly better cardiovascular shape than the average person -to have a significantly greater overall capacity to do work (manual labor, etc.) than the average person In my opinion, the program that I've been running for almost two years accomplishes all of those goals better than anything else. At this point in the conversation, I will refer to "crossfit" as simply the type of training that it is, high-intensity interval training "HIIT", or metabolic conditioning "metcons." To me, nothing accomplishes my third goal as well as doing metcons regularly. That being said, there will be a negative effect on my strength gains and that has to be minimized by strategic arrangement of my program and managing recovery to the best of my ability. That's why I only do two metcons per week and place them after heavy lifts and give myself a day off afterwards. I also do one long run per week and that is kept over in a corner by itself. To do metcons as your only form of training, you are essentially doing what the guy in the video said. You are "in a very dangerous aerobics class." If a novice begins a training program consisting solely of metcons, they will see rapid gains (in strength and conditioning) at first (as they would in any other program). After that, they will spend the rest of their time nickel and diming away at any real gains. Crossfit is too random to allow for any real gains at an advanced level. Therefore, that person will never get anywhere near their genetic potential for strength. They will settle, instead, for being in shape and having something to go home and tell their friends on facebook about (also mentioned in the video). Where my program differs is that I am stronger than I ever would've been doing crossfit. I am also in much better cardiovascular shape than I was when I did crossfit and can "do more work" than I could when doing crossfit. While I am not at my genetic potential in any of those areas, I am much further in all of them than I would've been if I kept doing crossfit. And that is what matters. Efficiency. Sorry, didn't mean to go on a rant, but it is nice to know that something you work very hard at is working and paying dividends. Ha ha. I love Bro' Science. He's funny as hell. I subscribe to his channel. Trent, Your program has/is working for you. I can see it in your numbers. All of the numbers, not just the lifts and I've said as much many times. I've dabbled with MANY types of training methodologies and had some form of success with them all. The most successful was the use of the Madcow template. I made ridiculous gains in a relatively short amount of time. Granted, a lot of it was novice gains. The strongest I got was using the "Bulgarian" method. Super huge gains in squat and bench press. 531 was ok...really, I maintained the gains from the Bulgarian method but got fat. Main site CrossFit was ok for a while but, as Trent said, I became overtrained and too sore at times. It's kind of funny that this thread went this direction as I have been thinking about stuff like this lately. So, here goes... lately I have been following a more CrossFit centered template as I am on an extremely limited time schedule these days. CF "WOD's" are usually fairly concise and quick. There is the occasional"chipper" that can take a while but... mostly you are looking at a max time of 45 minutes. Please note that I don't follow the CF HQ workouts, instead I have been programming daily workouts that have a focus on strength in all forms of lifting, metabolic conditioning and gymnastics. One area where I went wrong when I first started CF was by throwing myself into it full speed and pushing things too hard. I kind of see myself as have come full circle with CF. When I first started I lacked the strength and techniques to perform but attempted to make up for it with guts and persistence aka stubbornness. I dropped out and started Madcow, moved to Bulgarian, then to the Juggernaut method and on to 531. I then dropped lifting for a bit and trained for a 15k run. I lost weight, gained back the cardio I lost with 531 and found myself at a crossroads not knowing where to pick back up. I messed around and then started looking on the web for different things. I finally realized that I have all the knowledge I need to make my own way. So, while I still want to BP 300# I also think that it would be cool as hell to do a handstand walk. As of now, thanks to all of my recent experience I am now strong enough and feel that I have sufficient technique to program powerlifting lifts, OLY lifts, metcons and gymnastics as long as I keep it simple. Without CF I would have never discovered that I absolutely love the snatch. It is one of my favorite movements. Without Madcow I would have never known that as a 45YO I AM capable of pressing to OH 165#. Without the Juggernaut method I would've never known that a combination of rep schemes not only increase strength but also work capacity. The Bulgarian method taught me how to self regulate in ways I had never considered before. I say all of this to say: I agree with you Trent...we are all individuals who need different things. I also think that things should stay fun and interesting. |
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Post by TM79 on May 25, 2016 10:32:32 GMT
That was pretty funny. Honestly, some of his comments are correct. Like killing your gains by doing super long metcons and the extreme level of risk associated with doing complicated movements under heavy load for time. I followed the crossfit main site workouts for 7 months straight (jaysun followed them for a while too) and I hadn't been injured that many times in 10 years leading up to it. That and if you are fortunate enough to escape without injury you may end up over trained, which leads to a whole other set of problems. That's the way it goes when you train in that fashion, 6 days per week... Luckily, an older, wiser, gentleman talked some sense into me and I stepped away from it and really looked at it for what it is. It is basically just conditioning, and when implemented correctly it can help get you into some great shape. The problem with signing up and doing "today's WOD" is that when it comes to physical conditioning of any kind, one size does NOT fit all. Everyone needs something different based on their body type and goals. It's funny, I just got into it with that same gentleman this weekend over this subject. He was trying to defend the method of training that he and his wife did (strict powerlifting, light conditioning and almost no assistance work) and how successful they were. I completely agreed with him. I mean he was out lifting guys that were juicing and he was drug free, and his wife was a world champion. You definitely can't argue with that. And if you are looking to be a world champion at weight lifting, you should use a program like theirs, that focus's solely on getting stronger. He was getting on me about all of the pull-ups I've been doing and how it is killing my gains. I explained to him that that's OK with me because I've already met my strength goals. I was a bean pole kid who grew up to be a man of average height and average build. I was pretty good at running and lifting weights, but not great at either. And while I'm sure that focusing solely on lifting heavy would add a fair amount of weight onto my rep maxes, it would probably leave me more or less out of shape in every other aspect. And in my life, that doesn't work. My goals are simple: -to be significantly stronger than the average person -to be in significantly better cardiovascular shape than the average person -to have a significantly greater overall capacity to do work (manual labor, etc.) than the average person In my opinion, the program that I've been running for almost two years accomplishes all of those goals better than anything else. At this point in the conversation, I will refer to "crossfit" as simply the type of training that it is, high-intensity interval training "HIIT", or metabolic conditioning "metcons." To me, nothing accomplishes my third goal as well as doing metcons regularly. That being said, there will be a negative effect on my strength gains and that has to be minimized by strategic arrangement of my program and managing recovery to the best of my ability. That's why I only do two metcons per week and place them after heavy lifts and give myself a day off afterwards. I also do one long run per week and that is kept over in a corner by itself. To do metcons as your only form of training, you are essentially doing what the guy in the video said. You are "in a very dangerous aerobics class." If a novice begins a training program consisting solely of metcons, they will see rapid gains (in strength and conditioning) at first (as they would in any other program). After that, they will spend the rest of their time nickel and diming away at any real gains. Crossfit is too random to allow for any real gains at an advanced level. Therefore, that person will never get anywhere near their genetic potential for strength. They will settle, instead, for being in shape and having something to go home and tell their friends on facebook about (also mentioned in the video). Where my program differs is that I am stronger than I ever would've been doing crossfit. I am also in much better cardiovascular shape than I was when I did crossfit and can "do more work" than I could when doing crossfit. While I am not at my genetic potential in any of those areas, I am much further in all of them than I would've been if I kept doing crossfit. And that is what matters. Efficiency. Sorry, didn't mean to go on a rant, but it is nice to know that something you work very hard at is working and paying dividends. Ha ha. I love Bro' Science. He's funny as hell. I subscribe to his channel. Trent, Your program has/is working for you. I can see it in your numbers. All of the numbers, not just the lifts and I've said as much many times. I've dabbled with MANY types of training methodologies and had some form of success with them all. The most successful was the use of the Madcow template. I made ridiculous gains in a relatively short amount of time. Granted, a lot of it was novice gains. The strongest I got was using the "Bulgarian" method. Super huge gains in squat and bench press. 531 was ok...really, I maintained the gains from the Bulgarian method but got fat. Main site CrossFit was ok for a while but, as Trent said, I became overtrained and too sore at times. It's kind of funny that this thread went this direction as I have been thinking about stuff like this lately. So, here goes... lately I have been following a more CrossFit centered template as I am on an extremely limited time schedule these days. CF "WOD's" are usually fairly concise and quick. There is the occasional"chipper" that can take a while but... mostly you are looking at a max time of 45 minutes. Please note that I don't follow the CF HQ workouts, instead I have been programming daily workouts that have a focus on strength in all forms of lifting, metabolic conditioning and gymnastics. One area where I went wrong when I first started CF was by throwing myself into it full speed and pushing things too hard. I kind of see myself as have come full circle with CF. When I first started I lacked the strength and techniques to perform but attempted to make up for it with guts and persistence aka stubbornness. I dropped out and started Madcow, moved to Bulgarian, then to the Juggernaut method and on to 531. I then dropped lifting for a bit and trained for a 15k run. I lost weight, gained back the cardio I lost with 531 and found myself at a crossroads not knowing where to pick back up. I messed around and then started looking on the web for different things. I finally realized that I have all the knowledge I need to make my own way. So, while I still want to BP 300# I also think that it would be cool as hell to do a handstand walk. As of now, thanks to all of my recent experience I am now strong enough and feel that I have sufficient technique to program powerlifting lifts, OLY lifts, metcons and gymnastics as long as I keep it simple. Without CF I would have never discovered that I absolutely love the snatch. It is one of my favorite movements. Without Madcow I would have never known that as a 45YO I AM capable of pressing to OH 165#. Without the Juggernaut method I would've never known that a combination of rep schemes not only increase strength but also work capacity. The Bulgarian method taught me how to self regulate in ways I had never considered before. I say all of this to say: I agree with you Trent...we are all individuals who need different things. I also think that things should stay fun and interesting. I'll tell you what, out of anything I've ever done in fitness, our "experiment" here has been the most rewarding thing I've ever done. It was awesome to break away from crossfit, start this website, start more structured programming that still offered variety, and watch our gains go through the roof. Jaysun, I've particularly liked watching you try out each of the programs that you tried. As you mentioned, they each did something different for you. And I know you've been pressed for time lately, but have also noticed that you do tend to keep your programs structured in that you include a dedicated strength section and then conditioning. Just by doing that you are still ahead of the curve. I'm with you on how crossfit opened up a whole different world of exercises and movements. I will credit it for that. It gave me the tools I needed to add variety to my workouts and while I don't plan to ever focus seriously on Olympic lifts, it is fun to throw some of them in to metcons and occasionally as assistance lifts. I look forward to seeing how we continue to progress and am honored to be among people who left the heard of sheep in search of the truth. |
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Post by mwhiteaker on May 25, 2016 21:16:53 GMT
i follow bro science as well. he cracks me up. My buddy always trys to get me to do crosssfit, and ive seen all of his cross fit related injuries that he posts to Facebook. Not only will i not do cross fit, i will never do cross fit with him.
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Post by TM79 on May 25, 2016 21:32:50 GMT
i follow bro science as well. he cracks me up. My buddy always trys to get me to do crosssfit, and ive seen all of his cross fit related injuries that he posts to Facebook. Not only will i not do cross fit, i will never do cross fit with him. I don't blame you. People who engage in training that injures them a lot and then brag about sitting out on the side line for weeks and months at a time are not smart and are definitely not serious about training. I wouldn't train with him either. Effective training minimizes the risk of injury. You're not making any gains by sitting on the couch with a hurt knee or shoulder. |
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Post by mwhiteaker on May 25, 2016 22:24:01 GMT
i follow bro science as well. he cracks me up. My buddy always trys to get me to do crosssfit, and ive seen all of his cross fit related injuries that he posts to Facebook. Not only will i not do cross fit, i will never do cross fit with him. I don't blame you. People who engage in training that injures them a lot and then brag about sitting out on the side line for weeks and months at a time are not smart and are definitely not serious about training. I wouldn't train with him either. Effective training minimizes the risk of injury. You're not making any gains by sitting on the couch with a hurt knee or shoulder. well im still sitting on the couch due to my calf. |
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Post by TM79 on May 25, 2016 22:47:53 GMT
I don't blame you. People who engage in training that injures them a lot and then brag about sitting out on the side line for weeks and months at a time are not smart and are definitely not serious about training. I wouldn't train with him either. Effective training minimizes the risk of injury. You're not making any gains by sitting on the couch with a hurt knee or shoulder. well im still sitting on the couch due to my calf. Yeah, but you didn't get that from doing some complicated exercise with bad form. It just sort've happened. You'll be back in no time. |
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Impressive, even with sh!t form. No way I could do 3 rounds of 405 lbs on DL. And 3 rounds of 40 GHD sit-ups is brutal too. 
